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paulinCA
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Joined: 09 Oct 2011
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re: Possible ways to encourage kin participation/play..

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Hi Kinnies,

A few thorts on enabling/ encouraging/ scheduling kin events / raids / etc.

1. Since many kinnies don't use the website, put the next event on the kin social panel, such at "Moors Night-Thurs. 5/xx, 8 pm EST" or "3/6 Man Raids. Tues. 5/xy,5 am (for those early risers)" along with good standby's like "3M night, 9 pm" If posted a day or two in advance, ppl can plan and schedule time to get together. Hoping to find a group of kinnies (Kin PUG) on the spur of the moment, works... rarely)
2. JMO, but kin officers should sponsor / lead/ organize more events, at least one a month, roughly. If a kin officer doesn't lead/ organize anything, why is he/she an officer (except kin leaders).
3. Kinnies who haven't done some raids/ 3/6 man events will never get to do them shortly after release, UNLESS the kin provides opportunities. Because many experienced kinnies don't want to do quests/ raids after they have gotten the goodies. So, unless a kinnie is quick and doing the new content immediately, no goodies. So recruits are only disaffected 85's since lower lvl ppl are SOL.
4. Recruits shouldn't be spoiled by burdening kind kinnies with requests to provide exotic gear/bling without earning the mats and doing some of the questing. ASF shouldn't bribe noobs by spoiling them.

If we don't nourish Arda, the land will turn dark!

Droric/Frend / Ranedr etc

PS- I would like to raid more and do the MOORS, but I haven't found a way to do that with any of the kins I have tried. I have had an account since Beta, March 07 and another account for my son, who raids only but on Elendimir.
Nimrodel is a smaller, quieter server. I expect it will merge with another server in the next few years if more ppl don't play on it. jmo
Merowin
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re: Possible ways to encourage kin participation/play..

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Hello Droric,

We do (did) often announce scheduled events in the message of the day, but it's mostly up to the person scheduling the event to update the message of the day. I agree it's a good thing to do and we should do it more often.

The officers are here to organize and run the kin and make decisions when needed, and we try to have officers from all time zones to ensure we almost always have an officer online if an incident should occur or someone needs an invite to the kin. Most of the officers are also among the most active and social members of the kin, but leading instances and raids is not part of the job description. With a few exceptions, me included, being Master of Raids.

The amount of instances we run depend a lot on the interest, and the interest is naturally higher when the instances are newer. We have been running a lot, and I mean A LOT, of instances during European evening hours ever since Rohan was released. I believe Whisk and Perception must have lead and completed Fires of Smaug T2 and Battle for Erebor T2 over ten times each. However, you need 12 interested players with the right class combinations online at the same time to run a 12 man. Three players are not enough. I scheduled Ost Dunhoth for last Saturday and Sunday. We had 6 signups for Saturday and 6 for Sunday...

People also loose interest. It's not about stopping once you have your loot, it's about being bored out of your skull after completing the same instance for the 456th time. The update scaling the In Their Absence cluster did not help matters, by making all instances so easy they became instantly boring.

We also have a large number of members that are simply not interested in running instances, and that is their choice. Figure out who likes to run instances and send them a tell when you see them online "Hey! Do you want to run X?", but be realistic. You cannot get a 12 man kin raid going with only 6 85s online...

I know quite a few people are running the Moors these days, including Trin, Sky and the Gordies. Our 6 man Ost Dunhoth raid Sunday even ended up in the Moors, although that was a bit unusual.
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I can't even count how many runs (3/6/12 man) I have participated in or led in the last few months. There has been activity and interest in running the 6 mans and 3 mans like I have never seen before because there is so much content to do. Mero is right, some of us who have been running them constantly have become a bit disillusioned by it, but we keep trucking for the sake of the kinnies so they can gear up/just have fun. The run doesn't matter when you are with 2 or 5 or 11 of your kin friends and you are having a good time.

With that said I have been a bit absent of late because of work and getting used to a new schedule. But I know mero, and whisk and perception and a whole list of others are still running content. All you need to do is ask to join them or ask to run something and I am sure it'll happen. I hope this helps point you in a direction that will allow you mare instance time with our great players. Thanks for your post.


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If folks actually want to run stuff I am more than willing to help organize, recruit, post, etc. Let me know what you want to run and when.
Merowin
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One thing to keep in mind when wanting to run stuff is that on an average day one third of the kinnies online have no 85s, one third have 85s, but are rarely interested in running anything. Only the last third have 85s and are usually interested. My suggestion is to remember who is who. That will make it a lot easier for you to get groups together. Don't wait for an officer to read your mind, take you by your hand and lead you through the instance. Get a group together yourself. You may die, but so what?
Georgion
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Merowin wrote:
One thing to keep in mind when wanting to run stuff is that on an average day one third of the kinnies online have no 85s, one third have 85s, but are rarely interested in running anything. Only the last third have 85s and are usually interested. My suggestion is to remember who is who. That will make it a lot easier for you to get groups together. Don't wait for an officer to read your mind, take you by your hand and lead you through the instance. Get a group together yourself. You may die, but so what?


That last point is really important. If you get a group of random kinnies in an instance, you may die because the 3 or 6 of you don't know the instance that well or don't have a lot of experience leading a group, or for whatever reason... but you get better by attempting it and learning as you go. That has always been the most effective teacher in the game for me.

In fact, some of the most fun I've had since the release of Rohan was during that first few days after the each instance cluster release when we were going through the 3-mans and/or new raids and just trying to figure out the mechanics of each fight. We died a bunch and laughed at the impossible difficulty of scuttledells T2 (at the time). When the raids came out, the group I was in only actually beat one (flight to the lonely mountain) because it was bugged. It was fun, though, because we were learning and enjoying the experience.

The fun part of the game is the journey and the company, not necessarily (or, at least, not only) the destination.


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paulinCA
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re: Possible ways to encourage kin participation/play..

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Thanks for the positive feedback / suggestions / reality. I will more actively look for kinnies in the kin social panel and vent. One thing I like is that ASF is a diverse group. I do hope to learn about the Moors someday. Perhaps some of my issue stems from having too many toons. I have trimmed active toons to three so I can play each of them more and be more raid ready.

Thks again for some positive ideas!
Droric /Frend / Ranedr
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The thing I've seen is that the "most active players" seem to grind the raids with other kins and between themselves for the 3-6 man instances, rarely an organized event, non-clique folks invited by ones and twos if a regular grinder has to do something in real life, then a significant drop-off in runs when the regulars get their goodies. That isn't just this kin but what I've seen as something regular over three years of play.

It's hard for many of us to spend a lot of time just running the same instance time and time again for toys in a short period after release. I agree with Droric that it would seem to be more kin-like if the officers, especially raid leaders, made more of an effort to to get more people included. That doesn't mean we have to raid 2-3 nights a week, I'd hate that. However, regular rotations of 3/6/12 man nights to give more of an opportunity to other kin members, knowing not all of us can make every one, would be nice.

If more things are scheduled on the calendar, I'd also agree with the suggestion of ensuring the kin message is updated with the week's events.


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Merowin
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I have pointed this out already, but I'm going to do so again. The officers are not here to run instances for you. Some of our most active players are not officers, and most of our active officers were active before they became officers. If you want to run an instance, get two or five others together and run it. Don't wait for someone else to ask you. You may not know the instance, and you may run around in quest gear, but so did we all at some point. You may die, but isn't that what was makes it fun? Not knowing beforehand if you can beat the instance or not.

The problem you might face is lack of interest. A large fraction of the kin is not able to or not interested in running instances. That's just how it is. All of us who want to run instances are faced with this. After Rohan was released we ran a lot of skirmish raids during European evening hours, but we had huge problems getting enough people to join, and most of the time we had to six man the skirmish raids.

My solution has been to ask in kinchat "Who wants to run <insert instance here>?" or send tells directly to people asking if they want to join. That way I slowly get an idea about who want to run stuff and who do not, and next time I want to run an instance I can have a quick look at who is online and get an idea about whether it's feasible or not to get a group together. Also if you see new people online you haven't played with before, ask them if they want to run something.

I run a lot of instances with Whisk and Dall, but also with the Gordies, Taisie, Elaelin, Perception, Sky, MJ, Marithil, and others. I don't know if that can said to be a clique; if it is, it's a clique of the willing. Those are the guys saying "Yes!" in kinchat when I ask who want to run something.

From what I have heard speaking with others we do have a problem with a lack of interest in running stuff during US evening hours, but the only way you can do something about that is to figure out who the few are who want to run stuff and then run stuff with them. If you have to stick to three mans in the beginning because you cannot get six players together, then stick to three mans, but run stuff. That's the important thing.

To have an officer schedule an instance on rapid raid doesn't magically make it happen if the interest isn't there...

And Whya, if that first paragraph was even in the smallest way aimed at me, Whisk or Dall, I'm actually pretty offended by it. I have consistently for over a year gone above and beyond anything that could be reasonably expected of me to get as many people involved as possible.
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Ummmm. I guess I will repeat myself also..........I have offered many times to try and organize stuff. We all know that "Dazed and Confused" here is not the person to lead an instance, raid, etc. but I will organize and recruit. I have backed off on that for a couple of reasons. 1. A general lack of interest unless success is guaranteed. 2. Too much disagreement among kinnies when things don't go perfect and we have to redo stuff multiple times to get it right. Happy That said.........I will offer again to assist in orgainizing, recruiting and setting up raids for anyone who wants to run stuff. Let me know. Also, Merowin, thank you for all of the weekends you gave us and your patience with folks like me who are a tad bit less than perfect and who sometimes run into rooms full of mobs without looking first. Happy
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For what it's worth, I'll be moving again in June and starting a new job (finally figured out where I'm going to land!), and after that I'll be more available to do the stuff that I normally do as well.

But I'm in large agreement with above comments from El and Mero: Sure, a kin is a great group of people who help each other out when possible, but we're only one of many many ways to get the runs and gear that you want. Friends lists, other kins that your friends are in that also run stuff, and even the <shudder> GLFF chat channel are all avenues that you can use to achieve your goals. Don't be afraid to offer the run yourself or find others who are interested.
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As a newer member to the kin (5 months or so) but one of the more active players in kin for all areas of the game and in a rarer timeslot I have a different perspective but it mirrors Mero's comments.

It does seem that we get the same-ol' folks running the groups but that's usually because they're the ones with their hands up at the right times. I've run a LOT with Mero, whisk and Dall and they always ask for interest in kinchat in the most open manner - usually to complete silence and we end up running undermanned.

In their offhours we tend to take the lead more ourselves and I have asked in kin many, many times and receive very little interest for the most part. In the end - for those times of the day - I usually draw from about 3 kin regulars and any 3 I can gather from friends list that I regularly run with.

Drac is running a bunch of stuff lately (around the clock) and almost always has to go to glff to fill the numbers. So there are plenty of spots and opportunities available if people are willing. At the moment there seems to be more interest in the festival, Wildermore and the moors (guilty!). But we still do quite a few runs of all types.

Timing can be a an issue for everyone. The failed OD schedules are a shame for me since I've been dying to run them for ages but just couldn't make them at the right time. Spontaneous kin raids are very rare - nature of the beast.
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There's only so much we can do. If people are not going to answer in kinchat, then its their loss. I've seen people leave the kin, complaining they never get help, and I never see them ask for help when they are on, we are not mind readers.

I've been working a lot and Friday-Sunday is my busiest days. When I have a day off I have been spending it with my husband. I intend to get a comp so we can play together, but its going to be a while, there's other stuff I need more. I will schedule deed-raids again when I can, I could have done it this Sunday, but a raid is already scheduled

It comes down to, if you want to run something, schedule it yourself. If you can't post on the calender, post in the forums. Make sure you put all raid times in est. Anytime I've seen someone use another time zone, its ended up in people showing up at the wrong times.


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